At last ! Some honest, intelligent discussion on this important subject. The evils of this world are principally the result of ignorant conservatives at either end of the social and political spectrum. It is a very volatile mix when combined with some God-given impramateur (aka religious worship) - the frequent resort of such individuals. These individuals appear to have an inability to progress to a more enlightened state of mind. They are deluded, deep, and very narrow. Those who promote the excesses of any religion or belief system(by no means confined exclusively to Muslims, but certainly the latter are seriously over-represented) need to be exposed and condemned. This should be possible without fear of condemnation and retribution, and being superficially labeled as bigoted. We need to tell it as it is, including self-criticism where required.
crusades/inquisitions/catlick-vs-proddy/war in iraq :
"it is a bitter pill for the vast majority of Australian christianists to swallow that their cult has been linked, globally and locally, to religious violence."
Dear "Did someone say ignorant-right-wing-racist?" your handle is quite a mouthful! Of course it is painful to Australian Christians when people do violence and abuse others in the name of the Christian faith. As a Christian pastor I have to endure the reality that people link clergy with pedophilia, for example. Now I wonder why they do that?? I have absolutely no objection to people speaking about Christian abuses in public fora. Your 'tu quoque' objection just reinforces my point. As I said, people have to live with the fact that others will judge their religion based upon what their fellow believers do and say. So no, it is not the pot calling the kettle black, but more like a black pot saying to the black kettle - "Well mate if you don't want people to call you black, you shouldn't be hanging about over the fire. Get used to it."
The best solution to the problem would be to reclassify Islam as a 'political group', like communism, and not a religion. There are already many arguments to back this up, ie that Islam does not value human transcendence, divine love and personal growth, unlike Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism or Zoroastrianism, . Accoring to Bynum's book "Allah is Dead", Islam has no other objective than to expand itself. Islam is a political group disguised as a religion. Just because it has a 'holy book', a prophet, prayer does not automatically make it a religion. Communism had its 'holy book', its prophets, and its 'prayer' (worship of communism).
Once Islam is reclassified and defined as it really is, we will have won a 1400 year old battle. This time without guns or swords, but ideologically.
Dare we say that all religions are not equal, and some some lead to more flourishing civilisations than others ?
No western government has as yet. However looking at the OIC countries, they lag western countries on just about every metric we value. Longevity, infant morality rates, patents registered, GDP per person, poverty, universities in the top 500,...
Now perhaps colonialism has had some affect on some of these countries, but when you see a statistic such as the entire Arab world translates fewer books in a year than Spain does, you wonder what is holding them back.
The belief that the Koran is the inerrant work of god doesn't leave much room for inquiry or criticism....
Dhimmitude, martyrdom, Jiazya, taqiyya, polygamy are only a few poisonous doctrines that need changing....
I cant see this changing. Only solution I see, is not letting any more into Australia, we dont want the problem that Netherlands, Austria, Germany, France and UK have.
Hi Mark, I found out about you after listening to your interview on ABCRN's Counterpoint program.
I agree with everything you said in that interview, but have been unable to put these points across in any discussion I have.
The situation with public debate on Islam in western countries is very hostile to anyone who is critical of this set of beliefs.
Criticism is not permitted by the majority. Critics are accused of racism and ignorance, even if it their statements are based on hard study and demonstrable facts.
Yet the western apologists for Islam who claim it to be a 'religion of peace' make such bland assertions without feeling any need to justify where they get such 'knowledge' from.
Comments are moderated. Avoid profanities or foul language. Stay on topic. Avoid ad hominem attacks. Posts which violate these principles or are deemed offensive in any way will be deleted.
At last ! Some honest, intelligent discussion on this important subject. The evils of this world are principally the result of ignorant conservatives at either end of the social and political spectrum. It is a very volatile mix when combined with some God-given impramateur (aka religious worship) - the frequent resort of such individuals. These individuals appear to have an inability to progress to a more enlightened state of mind. They are deluded, deep, and very narrow. Those who promote the excesses of any religion or belief system(by no means confined exclusively to Muslims, but certainly the latter are seriously over-represented) need to be exposed and condemned. This should be possible without fear of condemnation and retribution, and being superficially labeled as bigoted. We need to tell it as it is, including self-criticism where required.
ReplyDeletecrusades/inquisitions/catlick-vs-proddy/war in iraq :
ReplyDelete"it is a bitter pill for the vast majority of Australian christianists to swallow that their cult has been linked, globally and locally, to religious violence."
kettle black, pot?
Dear "Did someone say ignorant-right-wing-racist?"
ReplyDeleteyour handle is quite a mouthful!
Of course it is painful to Australian Christians when people do violence and abuse others in the name of the Christian faith. As a Christian pastor I have to endure the reality that people link clergy with pedophilia, for example. Now I wonder why they do that?? I have absolutely no objection to people speaking about Christian abuses in public fora. Your 'tu quoque' objection just reinforces my point. As I said, people have to live with the fact that others will judge their religion based upon what their fellow believers do and say.
So no, it is not the pot calling the kettle black, but more like a black pot saying to the black kettle - "Well mate if you don't want people to call you black, you shouldn't be hanging about over the fire. Get used to it."
The best solution to the problem would be to reclassify Islam as a 'political group', like communism, and not a religion. There are already many arguments to back this up, ie that Islam does not value human transcendence, divine love and personal growth, unlike Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism or Zoroastrianism, . Accoring to Bynum's book "Allah is Dead", Islam has no other objective than to expand itself. Islam is a political group disguised as a religion. Just because it has a 'holy book', a prophet, prayer does not automatically make it a religion. Communism had its 'holy book', its prophets, and its 'prayer' (worship of communism).
ReplyDeleteOnce Islam is reclassified and defined as it really is, we will have won a 1400 year old battle. This time without guns or swords, but ideologically.
Dare we say that all religions are not equal, and some some lead to more flourishing civilisations than others ?
ReplyDeleteNo western government has as yet. However looking at the OIC countries, they lag western countries on just about every metric we value. Longevity, infant morality rates, patents registered, GDP per person, poverty, universities in the top 500,...
Now perhaps colonialism has had some affect on some of these countries, but when you see a statistic such as the entire Arab world translates fewer books in a year than Spain does, you wonder what is holding them back.
The belief that the Koran is the inerrant work of god doesn't leave much room for inquiry or criticism....
Dhimmitude, martyrdom, Jiazya, taqiyya, polygamy are only a few poisonous doctrines that need changing....
I cant see this changing. Only solution I see, is not letting any more into Australia, we dont want the problem that Netherlands, Austria, Germany, France and UK have.
Hi Mark,
ReplyDeleteI found out about you after listening to your interview on ABCRN's Counterpoint program.
I agree with everything you said in that interview, but have been unable to put these points across in any discussion I have.
The situation with public debate on Islam in western countries is very hostile to anyone who is critical of this set of beliefs.
Criticism is not permitted by the majority. Critics are accused of racism and ignorance, even if it their statements are based on hard study and demonstrable facts.
Yet the western apologists for Islam who claim it to be a 'religion of peace' make such bland assertions without feeling any need to justify where they get such 'knowledge' from.
regards
Brian