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Monday, January 4, 2010

"They ARE the Reformation"

This post has been moved. It can be read here.


  1. Following this logical assessment, it follows that Islam needs to either transform by mean of litterature re-engineering (falsified) thru the right channels or be left to rot via economic and demographic extinction.

  2. Radical Islam?
    First, we need to define radicalism? We, cannot use general words to write about such a sensitive issue without qulifying the world we use. Second, We cannot excerpt some points from the Islamic law such as the death for apostates, stoning adulterers, cutting off the hands of thieves, enslaving one's enemies, and killing non-believers to generlize that reforming islam would mean making it radical because such punishments in Islamic law are governed by a systematic and thorough process of a detailed procedure; there are certain philosophies, conditions, verdicts, witnessess, ... etc, to carry out any final judgement bearing such punishments. Thirdly, it is not logical nor is it objective to generalize a judgement about Islam when one takes examples of Al-Qaeda or the Jihad movement (which are themselves created in reacation to injust acts made against muslims all over the world), here the odd of the rule is used as a rule, which is not logical. Islam is simple, plain, and innate.
    Finally, to discuss any religous issue, one first needs to study that particular religion in deliberate and due manner.

    Thank you very much,

    E. A. Y

    1. It certainly has been studied...

  3. The Major Religions share this basic idea: We got it right and everyone else got it wrong. Christianity and Islam share another idea: Others who have the wrong idea must be converted to the right idea. This is the driver that made Christianity and Islam spread far and wide, far from their homes of origin, while Judaism, Buddhism and Hinduism remained largely local and only spread as their adherents themselves spread.

    Today Christianity is the prevailing religion on most continents and can now afford to be magnanimous. Many Christians today are quite tolerant of others - certainly moreso than in times past. Islam has no such tolerant vein. Islam sees itself as the supreme belief, the best possible way of life and the only legitimate system. In the Islamic view, all else must be converted to Islam or else destroyed.

    It is this fundamental intolerance in Islam that prevents it from establishing friendly relations with any other people. Until Islam becomes tolerant of others, Islam will remain at war with everyone else. If there is only (only!!) a 100,000,000 minority in Islam that fervently believes that Islam will ultimately win, then there are enough patient Muslims to keep the fires of conflict burning for a very, very long time.

  4. Great article, a perfect complement to this one I read a few weeks ago:
    I guess your's has the advantage of a better knowing of the modern western mind.
    God bless you.
    Best wishes,

  5. Thanks Mark for a wonderful post. Waleed Ali is quite correct the Islamic ideology represented by the Taliban and al Qa'ida - loosely described as Salafy - IS the reformation! The frightening thing is the scope of its appeal as what they say about the fayrd ayn of jihad, particularly with 'infidel armies' in the Dar al-Islam resonates amongst even moderate (in practice) Muslims and even those educated and well-to-do in secular Muslim countries like Indonesia.

    The root of the problem is the Qu'ran itself which, as the word of God, cannot be altered or 'reformed' including the numerous references extolling violence towards non-Muslims and the virulent antisemitism that permeates it.

    Note also that unlike Christianity and Catholicism in particular, Islam has not had its great schism and either fought out or peacefully reconciled the fundamental differences between Shiites and the majority Sunni.

    Unfortunately the Western mind has enough difficulty grasping the first concept let alone the latter one. But your insightful and learned analysis will go a long way to help.


  6. My friend Igor, a brilliant linguist, has clarified something:

    "Mark, I agree with every word in it 137%. But there is another, less precise sense of the word "reform" —'change in a better direction,' as opposed to 'return to the roots.'
    I think we should press the Muslims to become more human, more modern; without this internal process I don't see how we can win over one billion people... "

    Mark Durie comments: I agree! Reform in this sense is a good thing. But not an 'Islamic Reformation'.

  7. First let me say it is profoundly refreshing to see deliberate analysis brought to bear on fundamental issues underpinning the resonant fears of our contemporary society here in Australia.
    I congratulate you on presenting a discourse on this subject as fear is never a good motivator for change. Thorough understanding of a subject invariably leads to rational decisions. In this matter clear understanding of the subject has been brought to our attention through the use of contrasting historical detail surrounding the evolution of Western society within the Judeo-Christian dialectic surrounding the seperation of church and state versus the Islamic ideal of religion being the State.
    Your insight is clear however it might be worthy to give a clear example of how this might be fundamentally at odds with how contemporary Western democracy operates, compared to how Sharia law handed down by Caliphates or an Islamic State - both historically and contempore - dispenses justice.
    I have just finished watching your appearance - for a second time on SBS- and was impressed with your responses and insight to the question of whether Islam can be content with a shared space in Western democratic world.
    It is a pity the attendant Islamic spokespeople at the soiree insisted in obfuscating the issues that the presenter tried to focus upon by trying to turn the debate upon it's head and lead a stampede into a emotionally driven environment of claiming disenfranchisement, xenophobia and religious intolerance c`oupled with the tried and tested method of claiming "moderate values", when no such defined movement exists within Islam.
    Islam is Islam and there is no other interpretation other than what is in the Koran.
    What troubles me in this debate, and what is often never spoken of relates to the school where a large majority of the sponsored imams that enter Western democracies emanate from.
    It would be of immense value to the general Australian community to have a clear written investigative expose on how radical islam is being brought into the Australian islamic community and what school of islam sponsors this brand of islam.
    Once again thankyou for your insight into this pressing issue.

  8. Lawrence Auster argues the point there is no such thing as moderate Islam. In a 2 part essay. Excellent essay's.


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